Probiotics and strep/guttage p cycle

[beachgirl]

There is a discussion on another thread about antibiotics and an article about 2 derms who have been experimenting with continous use of antibiotics to treat guttate p, and apparently some here have had good success with having their docs treat them with antibiotics.

I was wondering if anyone here has tried probiotics and what kind of success they have had. Of course that is if they are not completely clear and busy playing on some beach and enjoying life--as I would be too.

I started another episode of strep about 2 weeks ago (about the 8th time within the past 3 years, usually followed by a breakout), I immediately started taking some probiotics I had, and wouldn't you know it both my throat and skin started getting better. But then as it often happens with me as I start feeling better and I run out of stuff, I stop taking it. I had a lot going on and was getting ready to go out of town so I didn't order more and sure enough it came back while I was on my trip and now it's turned into a full blown infection. Skin still pretty clear knock on wood (or the Arbonne lotion I recently started using, not quite sure). I have not had a chance to make an appt with a doctor yet, and thought I'd so some research first.

I can't say I won't ever take antibiotics but I can't imagine taking them forever would be healthy. So I was wondering if high doses of pro-biotics to clear up initially, followed by regular and contiuous supplementation might produce the same, if not better results. Also would like to know what a safe high dose might be. The stuff I take is 5 billion flora per capsule. I am bad about taking things regularly but I am determined to make an effort and stick with it if I think it would work.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[RichJ]

hi beachgirl,
sorry i can't help much but welcome to the p family. you have met some of the wonderful people on here and will find alot of great info. welcome and nice to meet you.

have a good day all

richard

[patti2957]

Hi:
I drink Kefir every day, which is a naturally cultured probiotic smoothie. It has 10 active cultures; don't know if the amounts are high enough, like the capsules sold may be far more potent but with all the meds I take, I figured this would be good.
I also woke up this morning with strep throat and don't understand the connection between strep and p/pa. I have p (very minor), pa being my biggest problem. Is there a known link?
thanks,
patti

[beachgirl]

Thanks Rich.

After sending my first message I found some posts about dietary probiotics. To clarify, the Probiotics I am refering to are the capsules you buy at a healthfood store. And I don't mean natural antibiotics, I mean restoring the good friendly bacteria to fight the bad.

Thanks.

[psoriaspouse]

Hey beachgirl,

Taking probiotics will definitely help your gut, but systemic benefits are questionable. The GI is very selective about what it lets through into the body, so the bacteria you are ingesting are setting up shop and living in your intestines where they like to live and help with your digestion. For example, it is questionable whether eating yogurt helps with yeast infections since your vagina is totally separate from your gut. You would have to substitute plain yogurt for your Monistat to repopulate that area with beneficial flora and drive out the yeasty-beasties.

Like you said, taking antibiotics for extended periods of time is not a nice thing to do for your body, but they may treat a systemic strep infection that is triggering your P, and they aren't going to kill you. They just kill all your beneficial flora while they kill the bacteria that is causing the systemic infection. Good luck with your treatments. I hope the strep stays at bay.

[sophie2002il]

Hello,

About the relation between strep and gp, I think schematically;

The strep attacks the liver or the gut.
the liver/gut becomes very sensible and reacts by giving spots (GP!) (as chocolate for (young) people with acne problem).

Of course we can help the "illed" liver/gut by taking probiotic or detox solutions.

but I think, the best is to avoid that the strep affects the liver/gut.
it means a PREVENTION action.
HOW?

we have to kill the strep when it is still in the throat...
- rince with apple vinegar
- menuka honey

or we have to increase the autoimmune we have in the throat...
- propolis (?)

what do you think of my "theory"?
please correct it or complete

Sophie

[GitOverIt]

sounds good Sophie....I've been thinking of getting a strep test myself, since I used to get the infectious throat ailment when I was young...and I believe it can lie dormant in the system....in fact that is probably what a carrier is?
I have ordered the Manuka honey myself...have you tried it? I also ordered the small booklet that they had on the subject and one of the creams!
Last month I started to get a sore throat...first time in years...I quickly got rid of it with GSE...(I also think it was brought on by glyconutrients....they detox the system at first) anyway I started to get what I thought was guttate...small red dots.....I also had gone off the slippery elm and Amer. saffron for a break! bad news! I stopped the break-out after about 3-4 days by taking GSE! I think! so after being off SE and AS for a month I'm back on it!!!!! I never had guttate before...just plaque and scalp P.

[RichJ]

Thanks Rich.

After sending my first message I found some posts about dietary probiotics. To clarify, the Probiotics I am refering to are the capsules you buy at a healthfood store. And I don't mean natural antibiotics, I mean restoring the good friendly bacteria to fight the bad.

Thanks.

your welcome beachgirl,

have a good night all

richard

[psoriaspouse]

Hey there, I just have a minute before I have to start on homework - I am procrastinating - but I thought I could help:

QUOTE:
"I've been thinking of getting a strep test myself, since I used to get the infectious throat ailment when I was young...and I believe it can lie dormant in the system....in fact that is probably what a carrier is?"

A carrier is a person (or animal) that carries a pathogen but does not get sick from it. It is unlikely that if you have had strep that you are considered a carrier. The most famous carrier is Typhoid Mary. That is an interesting tale. I would tell it, but I would have to write a book. Look it up, it is a great piece of medical microbiologic history.

[patti2957]

I guess my question was a bit broader... I have strep throat (yesterday/today), and did have it quite often as a young adult. Is the fact that I later developed an autoimmune disorder - PA - a fluke or is this common?
thanks,
patti

What can we use for the throat the way probiotics help the intestinal tract?

[beachgirl]

Psoripause, I hadn't thought about the seperation of gut vs. other parts of the body. I was thinking everything we ingest pretty much gets distributed to the whole body, nail, hair, skin and all. What you're say makes sense though.

Based on what I read on web md I'm pretty sure this thing has turned into Pnumenia. Also I've had it before and I recognize the symptoms. I have uncontrollable itchy cough way down in my chest that I just can't shake off. Humidifier, vicks, Robitusson DM, even antihistamine syrup as a last resort so I could get some sleep last night. I have massive rusty mucus when I cough in the morning, once with a ting of blood. I have an appt. with a doctor today and am going to bite the bullet and take the antibiotics. It's just that after I take antibiotics, I end up with recurrant yeast infections followed by flare ups. I think I might have to start the yogurt for monistadt thing right away (I have tried it and it does work). I think I might replenish with probiotics afterward. I definately want to try the kefir. I will look up Manuka Honey, had never heard of it before.

I was having good success treating my strep early on by taking the probiotics, I'm sure of that. As soon as I stopped taking it (busy, ran out, didn't get more) it came back. But now it's gotten too out of hand and I have a busy weekend coming up and I need to get it under control.

It's so wonderful to be able to talk to knowledgeable people about alternative and complementary treatments. I have successfully treated my pa for several years now (Powdered Mega MSM), cleared my p naturally on several occasions and all sorts of other ailments that have come up in my family. I believe Doctors are good for diagnosis and emergencies, but for long term treatments you have to go on your own quest to find what works.

I am bound and determined to figure out how to keep this strep thing from coming back. I have no doubt that I will eventually get to the bottom of it. The way I see it: no strep, no flareups, clear skin.

[Dulane]

Great conversation!

I've been wondering about prevention too. I can't help but wonder if it isn't also part of our dental health, too.

Cavities are also caused by strep, and if you have an abcess of something similar going on, I know that it can affect your entire body.

I think this comes back also to the acid/alkaline balance. If you body is alkaline enough, strep can't get a foot hold.

I'd sure like to think that is part of the answer. Sophie's additions of Apple Cider Vinegar, menuka honey and even propolis are great ideas.

I've heard that lemon/water is another good daily peventative.

[GitOverIt]

And don't forget grapefruit seed extract....since I started taking this I'm hooked....I'm a GSE junkie!

http://www.pureliquidgold.com/health.htm#throat
this sounds better than any antibiotic plus it does not kill the friendly bacteria.....I got mine at The Vitamin Shoppe....and take 20-25 drops twice a day sometimes 3 x a day....I love the taste of it in organic juices with ice chips....some people don't like the taste...to me it is better than grapefruit juice.....

as for dental ....not me I go in every year regularly no cavities here ...altho I've read that poor dental hygiene can cause health problems!

[docmks]

[QUOTE=patti2957]I guess my question was a bit broader... I have strep throat (yesterday/today), and did have it quite often as a young adult. Is the fact that I later developed an autoimmune disorder - PA - a fluke or is this common?[QUOTE]

Strep is a trigger for P and PA. When I was a child, my entire family got strep throat. It wasn't long after that that my dad and I both got P on our fingers (though it wasn't properly diagnosed). As an adult I developed recurrent strep infections for over a year; sinus surgery finally cleared that up. The infection was literally trapped in my sinuses and couldn't go anywhere. Less than ten years after that, I develped plaque P and PA. Strep is also a trigger for other conditions as well. I saw a recent study in Pediatrics that strep in children can trigger OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) as well as Tourette's Syndrome. Apparently the researchers hypothesize that the antibiodies created by strep actually have a negative impact on some normal tissues, including some areas of the brain. Pretty interesting.

MK

[psoriaspouse]

docmks, I also find the link between infectious diseases and autoimmune and other disorders facinating and something that needs to be looked at more closely. There appears to be more going on than meets the eye, huh?

[Dulane]

BTW Beachgirl,

I steadfastly use probiotics everyday. I do kefir in the morning and Primal Defense at night. And I use several other supplements/foods like chickory and larch arabinogalactan that help feed the healthy acidophilus in the gut.

I also make kombucha tea and kimchi for additional cheap probiotics. I haven't had any illness (except itchies and aches) in several years. But my P covered 80% of me and my PA didn't allow me to climb stairs last year. This year I have about 15% light coverage and I'm climbing mountains and shoveling trenches on our road and on our building project.

Probiotics have been an incredible asset to my recovery.

[beachgirl]

BTW Beachgirl,

I steadfastly use probiotics everyday. I do kefir in the morning and Primal Defense at night. And I use several other supplements/foods like chickory and larch arabinogalactan that help feed the healthy acidophilus in the gut.

I also make kombucha tea and kimchi for additional cheap probiotics. I haven't had any illness (except itchies and aches) in several years. But my P covered 80% of me and my PA didn't allow me to climb stairs last year. This year I have about 15% light coverage and I'm climbing mountains and shoveling trenches on our road and on our building project.

Probiotics have been an incredible asset to my recovery.

That is very encouraging. The probiotics might not have a systemic effect, but could it benefit the body in a different way which could explain the benefits to p & pa? I too have seem positive results so I am hoping if I start taking it more faithfully it will help my p and hopefuly prevent future strep or bronchial infections. I say bronchial because I was talking to my mom and she reminded me that last year I had non-strep bronchitis and my skin still broke out. It could have something to do with the skin/lung connection. Sorry, I know I'm raising more questions than I'm answering here, but these are all things to consider. I went to the doc last Fri, they did a strep test but I haven't gotten the results back yet. I was told I had bronchitis (again), it felt more like pnumonia, but they can't call it that unless they run an x-ray, and since I am self pay I took the free antibiotic samples and left it at that. I feel so much better now, I was coughing my head off before.

I tried kefir, yummy, but major lactose intolerance issues...iykwim! The healthfood store I went to didn't have soy based. Anyone know a good source?

Also I have been doing the lemon water, great for digestion and weight loss, but I have wondered if it irritates my throat making me more suseptible to getting a sore throat!! I have a very sensitive throat it seems.

[beachgirl]

Sally,
I read the info on GSE and definately plan on trying it. Should I order it from the source you included or will any brand from the healthfood store do. This could be just what I've been searching for.

[freddy1]

How about plain yogurt?

[GitOverIt]

Hi Beachgirl...I bought Nutribiotic brand because I didn't want to wait for delivery by ordering on line....but I'm going to orderPure Liquid Gold because it is stronger........... 60% Citricidal ...40% glycerine

whereas Nutribiotic is 33% Citricidal and 67% glycerine

[Dulane]

Plain yogurt helps, but it is still a bit low on the probiotics. You want the stuff that says live cultures/colonies or something to that affect.

Don't be mixin it with jam and bad stuff now...Keep it healthy!

[ericm]

Not sure if you can gain similar effect from probiotic by adopting macrobiotic diet. Anyway, I have these 2 macrobiotic cookbooks that are interesting:

The Quick and Natural Macrobiotic Cookbook
author: Michio Kushi

Practically Macrobiotic Cookbook
author: Keith Michell

good luck,
eric

[Dulane]

Beachgirl,

You can culture homemade kefir for 48 hrs and better, and all the lactose is is gone at that point.

Worth looking into...if you are up to a new housepet.

[beachgirl]

Not sure if you can gain similar effect from probiotic by adopting macrobiotic diet. Anyway, I have these 2 macrobiotic cookbooks that are interesting:

The Quick and Natural Macrobiotic Cookbook
author: Michio Kushi

Practically Macrobiotic Cookbook
author: Keith Michell

good luck,
eric

Eric,
Interesting you mention Macrobiotics. Although Macrobiotics has nothing to do with Probiotics, it helps by alkalinizing the body using the principals of yin and yang (acid/alkaline).

Incidentally it's the first diet I tried 15+ years ago when I first got p. I followed the first book you referred to, plus the main book on allergies which explains the diet by the same author. Results: I cleared up in 1 month! I also lost a bunch of weight which at that time I didn't need to loose, I went down to 90 lbs, and literally had to eat 2 plates full at meals just to keep my weight. My mom thought I'd gone anorexic. My p became very mild, only elbows and knees for a long time even after I stopped the diet.

It was very hard to stay on this diet, it's more like a fast on brown rice, veggies and only a few condiments, but delicious and satisfying if you go through the trouble of buying and preparing the meals as prescribed. I have attempted to follow this regime several times, but my fast-pace life just won't allow me to stay on it. I have also fasted a few different times, 3 days on juices and water, followed by 2 days of macrobiotics and have had good results. But when I went back to my SAD diet (Standard American Diet) I found myself back where I started. As much as I hate to face it, the best solution is diet of course, and remembering all this is making me think about trying it again. But the question is: will my 7 year old go for it or will I have to prepare 2 seperate meals?? Rhetorical question.

[sophie2002il]

Hello,

I have ordered the Manuka Honey today (via ManukaHoney.co.uk).
Active UMF 16+.

Let's see...

Sophie